Discussion:
Send this to the entire world!
(too old to reply)
a***@aol.com
2006-08-19 10:23:54 UTC
Permalink
Chinese fur farms Hebei Province


video: Take care:" Not for children !!"


http://www.peta2.com/takecharge/swf/fur_farm.swf



On these farms, foxes, minks, rabbits, and other animals pace and
shiver in
outdoor wire cages, exposed to driving rain, freezing nights, and, at
other
times, scorching sun. Mother animals, who are driven crazy from rough
handling and intense confinement and have nowhere to hide while giving
birth, often kill their babies after delivering litters. Disease and
injuries are widespread, and animals suffering from anxiety-induced
psychosis chew on their own limbs and throw themselves repeatedly
against
the cage bars.


And this isnt even half of it. Half of it I couldnt write, as it made
me gag
or come nearly to tears. Fur farms have got to stop. If you would like
to
read more about this, go to this site I found through researching.
http://www.furisdead.com/foxbox.asp I would recomend looking at the
documentary of 'A Shocking Look Inside Chinese Fur Farms.' In that
link,
there is a shocking video, I couldnt watch more into eight seconds of
it.


PLEASE HELP AND SEND THIS TO THE ENTIRE WORLD SO THIS MASSACRE CAN
STOP.

SING ONE OF THE PETITIONS PLEASE

http://www.petitiononline.com/furfarm1/petition.html
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/130973249?ltl=1154908722

--


Guido
Belgium

Angus Macmillan
www.roots-of-blood.org.uk
www.killhunting.org
www.con-servation.org.uk

All truth passes through three stages:
First, it is ridiculed;
Second, it is violently opposed; and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident.
-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)
Jenny
2006-08-19 10:27:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@aol.com
Chinese fur farms Hebei Province
video: Take care:" Not for children !!"
http://www.peta2.com/takecharge/swf/fur_farm.swf
On these farms, foxes, minks, rabbits, and other animals pace and
shiver in
outdoor wire cages, exposed to driving rain, freezing nights, and, at
other
times, scorching sun. Mother animals, who are driven crazy from rough
handling and intense confinement and have nowhere to hide while giving
birth, often kill their babies after delivering litters. Disease and
injuries are widespread, and animals suffering from anxiety-induced
psychosis chew on their own limbs and throw themselves repeatedly
against
the cage bars.
And this isnt even half of it. Half of it I couldnt write, as it made
me gag
or come nearly to tears. Fur farms have got to stop. If you would like
to
read more about this, go to this site I found through researching.
http://www.furisdead.com/foxbox.asp I would recomend looking at the
documentary of 'A Shocking Look Inside Chinese Fur Farms.' In that
link,
there is a shocking video, I couldnt watch more into eight seconds of
it.
PLEASE HELP AND SEND THIS TO THE ENTIRE WORLD SO THIS MASSACRE CAN
STOP.
SING ONE OF THE PETITIONS PLEASE
http://www.petitiononline.com/furfarm1/petition.html
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/130973249?ltl=1154908722
©¿©
2006-08-19 15:06:29 UTC
Permalink
Help Save #99

He didn’t even have a name. Instead, he was identified by the last two
digits of the I.D. number tattooed across his chest. #99 was one of
hundreds of monkeys who were abducted from their homes in the wild,
only to be used to test a mysterious experimental substance in a
laboratory in Vienna, Virginia.

#99 was the smallest and sickliest monkey in the experiment: too pale,
too thin, nearly bald, and his skin yellow and flaking off at the
slightest touch. After the experiments he was put through, his tail
was swollen, red, and oozing pus, and he had trouble breathing because
of huge scabs in his nostrils. Every day, technicians would force a
tube up #99’s nose, down his throat, and into his stomach, where an
experimental substance was then pumped. This procedure caused open
wounds in #99’s throat, making him choke, gag, and vomit.

#99 constantly would try to hide from his tormentors in the back of
his barren cage. One of the workers involved with the experiments said
that he looked like a chemo patient; another observed that he looked
“pretty shitty.” Others simply laughed at him. He was denied any
treatment or painkillers for his injuries, and he suffered constant
beatings, abuse, and ridicule—in addition to the horrifying
experiments. The technicians called themselves “catchers” because #99
would scream and resist while trying to hold onto his cage, terrified
of being violently dragged to the experiment table. After the
experiment, the catchers would use a high-powered hose to rinse his
cage—covered in blood, feces, and vomit—with #99 still inside. He
ended each day cold, shivering, and alone.

To watch the horrific reality see
http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=covance_peta_2
©¿©
2006-08-30 06:53:02 UTC
Permalink
The Two Tamworth Pigs Who Escaped Death at a UK Abattoir


A True Story of Porcine Escapism, Intelligence & Ingenuity!


The Great Escape!
In January 1998, two 5-month old Tamworth rare breed boars escaped
while being unloaded at a Wiltshire U.K. slaughterhouse. The agile
pair went "on the run", chased by an army of abattoir workers, police
and news reporters. Their dramatic escape from the abattoir - just
before being slaughtered - and their wily tricks to evade capture
attracted media attention and captured the hearts of the animal-loving
British nation. The two resourceful hogs were given the names "Butch
Cassidy" and "The Sundance Pig".

The intrepid porcines squeezed under a supposedly secure fence and
swam a large icy river in their bid for freedom - swine are naturally
strong swimmers.

Even after they were finally discovery, six days after escaping, one
of the young boars continued to evade capture for a further 36 hours
in a confrontation with an army of animal handlers, RSPCA humane
society officers, abattoir staff, police, dogs and a tempting female
Tamworth sow. He even survived the first two of three immobilising
darts before finally succumbing to capture.

The pigs were eventually recaptured on January 15th in the garden of
local residents - only quarter of a mile away from the abattoir. They
had been feeding regularly on kitchen vegetable waste. It seems that
local residents refused to report their presence until a national
newspaper had guaranteed to purchase them and send them to an animal
sanctuary.

The newspaper which finally bought the good pigs did so for a high
price in order to have exclusive photo rights. The last pig to be
caught was taken to a local veterinary practice to recover from the
immobilising drug injection. There was a struggle for possession of
the pig at this point because the purchasing newspaper wanted to take
him away to join his companion for a "Reunited in freedom thanks to
us" photo shoot. However, the vet refused to release him saying that
he should be kept under observation for 24 hours. Other reporters
allegedly tried to break into the vets to photo the drugged boar and
the police were called to intervene and prevent a "breach of the
peace". The newspaper claimed ownership rights, but could not
immediately produce a receipt in proof of this.

Fugitive Porkers Reprieved from becoming Pork Chops!
Butch and Sundance evaded capture for over a week. When eventually
re-captured they were saved from death by a huge public outcry. A
local butcher voiced the widespread opinion that it would be
"unsporting" to kill the two swine after such a daring bid to avoid
the fate which befell their "less-fleet-of-foot" companion, who had
been unloaded at the same time.

A national newspaper arranged for them to be re-homed in an animal
sanctuary - prompting headlines about how the intrepid swine had
managed to "Save their Bacon"! The English are of course famous for
their eccentricity and for their love of animals - pigs being a
species considered particularly endearing. The pigs now have a
guaranteed long life at an animal sanctuary. During the week they were
on the run, their value soared from 40 GB pounds each, to a staggering
15,000 GBP - the sum finally paid to buy them - against intense
competition from other TV and newspaper companies by a national media
organisation.

Immortalised on Film!
The BBC have made a movie based on this true-life story. Six out of
the eight pigs used to make the movie were female because it was
thought that the sight of male pigs' genitals was not suitable
material for family viewing! The two male pigs used were only ever
shot from the front view! In real life Butch was female (a "gilt" i.e.
virgin sow) and Sundance was male.

In true Hollywood style, the brave heroic pigs journey through the
English countryside to the village of Tamworth, from which the breed
gets its name, hoping to be reunited with their mother while an evil
slaughterhouse manager fiendishly plots their recapture. Will they be
able to avoid the traps he has set and reach Tamworth? The film
reveals all!

Abattoir Criticized
The abbattoir from which the pigs escaped, located in Malmesbury,
Wiltshire, was later "named & shamed" for low standards. UK Food
Safety Minister, Jeff Rooker, reported that the abattoir had scored 61
points out of 100 in a nation-wide check on slaughterhouses - official
action was taken against all slaughter plants scoring less than 65. He
commented that and added, "They obviously didn't want to die in a
low-scoring Action is being taken against all the plants scoring less
than 65.

It has been suggested that this pair of pigs became a focus for a
growing consumer guilt issue. More and more EU consumers were
expressing reservations about the price paid by hogs to meet the
demand for cheap meat. A philosopher referred to the "ocean of porcine
misery" that this dramatic escape symbolised. Their escape came at a
time when new pig welfare legislation was under consideration by both
the UK parliament and the European Union.

More Livestock Escapes from UK Abattoirs!
In June 2000 an Aberdeen Angus heifer escaped from a U.K. meat plant
in Warwickshire and gained the nickname "Houdini". The cow was later
given sanctuary at an animal shelter - Hillside Animal Sanctuary in
Norfolk. According to Animal welfare campaigner, Dr Tim O'Brien, the
shelter was also home to five cattle who ran wild in a wood near
Tamworth, Staffordshire, and eluded capture by trained animal trappers
and Army marksmen for several weeks.






BBC Film about the "Tamworth Two" Pigs
Available now on DVD or VHS video:

UK & Europe USA

VIEW CLIPS FROM THE FILM!

Pigs are strong swimmers - Check out the film!




Farm Animals - Management, Meat, Welfare: Books, Documentary Films,
DVD


KID'S QUIZ: Farm Animals in Popular Films: Children's Farm Animal
Stories
d***@.
2006-08-30 16:26:21 UTC
Permalink
It seems that local residents refused to report their presence until a national
newspaper had guaranteed to purchase them and send them to an animal
sanctuary.
Yet we NEVER hear of "aras" purchasing pigs who are headed for
slaughter, and releasing them to begin happy wild populations like they
pretend they want to see. And we NEVER hear of "aras" purchasing
pigs or anything else who are headed for slaughter, and providing them
with long happy lives like they suggest farmers should be forced to do.
And we NEVER hear of "aras" rescuing the dying brothers of commercial
laying hens, and providing them with longer lives and/or more humane
deaths than the poor birds must endure because NO ONE cares about
them enough to help them.
©¿©
2006-09-01 12:58:12 UTC
Permalink
Farmers grabbing the opportunity to scapegoat wildlife once again.
This time it's the innocent badgers! Whilst it is a clearly limited
minority of the farming community, we must be careful they don't gain
credence!

http://www.fwi.co.uk/Articles/2006/08/29/97437/.htm

Stakeholders unite in call on DEFRA to tackle TB
29/08/2006 12:00:00
FWi
Led by the NFU, all of the major farming and veterinary organisations
in the UK have presented a joint statement to DEFRA detailing how the
government could tackle the burden of bovine tuberculosis.

At a meeting last Thursday (24 August) the group agreed a statement
calling for a cull of badger populations in areas badly affected by
TB. The statement has now been delivered to junior DEFRA minister Ben
Bradshaw.

The statement calls on government to issue licences to farmers
allowing the use of carbon monoxide gas to cull badgers on their
property. A suitably trained individual would be employed to carry
out the task and the farmer would bare the cost of employing them.

Meurig Raymond, NFU deputy president, said: “We’ve done all we can
here. We’ve agreed a position which will involve farmers continuing to
put up with cost and inconvenience, but as part of a partnership
approach with government.

“This agreement has now been issued to the minister, Ben Bradshaw.
This places the ball very firmly in the government’s court. We’re
prepared to play our part, are they prepared to play theirs?”

For more details see Friday’s (1 September) issue of Farmers Weekly.

Statement agreed by:

NFU
Holstein UK
Royal Association of British Dairy Farmers
Country Land and Business Association
Central Association of Agricultural Valuers
Royal Institute of Charted Surveyors
NFU Cymru
Tenant Farmers Association
National Federation of Young Farmers Clubs
Livestock Auctioneers Association
National Beef Association
Bill Madders (dairy farmer)
John Gallagher (veterinary scientist)

In addition: Members of the British Veterinary Association were
present and approved the statement, but formal agreement by their
organisations would have to be ratified by their Councils.

by Andrew Watts (About this Author)



--






*********************************

" There are none so blind as those that do not know they cannot see.
There are none so deaf as those who do no know they cannot hear.
There are none so numb as those who do not know they cannot feel."
Peter Duncanson
2006-08-20 09:00:56 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 19 Aug 2006 11:27:09 +0100, Jenny
Post by a***@aol.com
SING ONE OF THE PETITIONS PLEASE
Will we need to sing very loudly so that we can be heard in China?

Anyway, what tune?
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in uk.business.agriculture)
Philip H. Hart
2006-08-19 15:21:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@aol.com
Chinese fur farms Hebei Province
[...]

In how many past posts have you categorically stated that you do not
campaign against farming. Are we to suppose that this situation has now
changed for the better?
a***@aol.com
2006-08-19 16:51:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Philip H. Hart
Post by a***@aol.com
Chinese fur farms Hebei Province
[...]
In how many past posts have you categorically stated that you do not
campaign against farming.
I have never opposed legitimate farming.
Post by Philip H. Hart
Are we to suppose that this situation has now
changed for the better?
As I have said before if you know where cruelty is involved you should
report it to the appropriate authorities.

But China is very different to the UK.


Angus Macmillan
www.roots-of-blood.org.uk
www.killhunting.org
www.con-servation.org.uk

All truth passes through three stages:
First, it is ridiculed;
Second, it is violently opposed; and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident.
-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)
Philip H. Hart
2006-08-20 09:23:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@aol.com
Post by Philip H. Hart
Post by a***@aol.com
Chinese fur farms Hebei Province
[...]
In how many past posts have you categorically stated that you do not
campaign against farming.
I have never opposed legitimate farming.
Is it not equally legitimate to:
A. Keep a chicken in a tiny cage to obtain eggs,
B. Keep a calf in a tiny, unlit hovel to obtain its flesh
C. Keep a mink in a cage to obtain its fur

What difference does it make whether these practices are carried out
inside or outside the UK. Chinese farmers are not breaking the Chinese
laws any more than British farmers are breaking UK law.
a***@aol.com
2006-08-20 09:49:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Philip H. Hart
Post by a***@aol.com
Post by Philip H. Hart
Post by a***@aol.com
Chinese fur farms Hebei Province
[...]
In how many past posts have you categorically stated that you do not
campaign against farming.
I have never opposed legitimate farming.
A. Keep a chicken in a tiny cage to obtain eggs,
B. Keep a calf in a tiny, unlit hovel to obtain its flesh
C. Keep a mink in a cage to obtain its fur
What difference does it make whether these practices are carried out
inside or outside the UK. Chinese farmers are not breaking the Chinese
laws any more than British farmers are breaking UK law.
There are plenty of AR Groups campaigning against this at present and
laws in the UK have been changed. I concentrate on the killing of
wildlife. If everyone campaigned on everything nothing would get
done.


Angus Macmillan
www.roots-of-blood.org.uk
www.killhunting.org
www.con-servation.org.uk

All truth passes through three stages:
First, it is ridiculed;
Second, it is violently opposed; and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident.
-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)
Malcolm
2006-08-20 17:17:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@aol.com
Post by Philip H. Hart
Post by a***@aol.com
Post by Philip H. Hart
Post by a***@aol.com
Chinese fur farms Hebei Province
[...]
In how many past posts have you categorically stated that you do not
campaign against farming.
I have never opposed legitimate farming.
A. Keep a chicken in a tiny cage to obtain eggs,
B. Keep a calf in a tiny, unlit hovel to obtain its flesh
C. Keep a mink in a cage to obtain its fur
What difference does it make whether these practices are carried out
inside or outside the UK. Chinese farmers are not breaking the Chinese
laws any more than British farmers are breaking UK law.
There are plenty of AR Groups campaigning against this at present and
laws in the UK have been changed. I concentrate on the killing of
wildlife. If everyone campaigned on everything nothing would get
done.
So what has your campaign achieved, Angus?

How many deer are not being killed because of your campaign?
How many grey squirrels are not being killed because of your campaign?
How many signal crayfish are not being killed because of your campaign?
How many ruddy ducks are not being killed because of your camapign?
How many additional foxes are now being killed because you supported the
campaign to stop fox hunting with dogs?
--
Malcolm
©¿©
2006-08-20 17:32:15 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 18:17:03 +0100, Malcolm
Post by Malcolm
Post by a***@aol.com
Post by Philip H. Hart
Post by a***@aol.com
Post by Philip H. Hart
Post by a***@aol.com
Chinese fur farms Hebei Province
[...]
In how many past posts have you categorically stated that you do not
campaign against farming.
I have never opposed legitimate farming.
A. Keep a chicken in a tiny cage to obtain eggs,
B. Keep a calf in a tiny, unlit hovel to obtain its flesh
C. Keep a mink in a cage to obtain its fur
What difference does it make whether these practices are carried out
inside or outside the UK. Chinese farmers are not breaking the Chinese
laws any more than British farmers are breaking UK law.
There are plenty of AR Groups campaigning against this at present and
laws in the UK have been changed. I concentrate on the killing of
wildlife. If everyone campaigned on everything nothing would get
done.
So what has your campaign achieved, Angus?
How many deer are not being killed because of your campaign?
How many grey squirrels are not being killed because of your campaign?
How many signal crayfish are not being killed because of your campaign?
How many ruddy ducks are not being killed because of your camapign?
How many additional foxes are now being killed because you supported the
campaign to stop fox hunting with dogs?
How much damage have you and CONservation hooligans suffered, by
having your vile deeds exposed to the world? Priceless!






***********************************************






Jim Webster,Barrow-in-Furness farmer,troll & president of Cumbria CLA.

Would you let your children near this person? see
http://tinyurl.com/kgbnf

Now in the sixth year of raving,defaming,bullying and libeling Pat Gardiner, and
still no result.

Need to complain about employees bringing Country Land and Business Association
into disrepute? Why not contact us at
Country Land and Business Association

16 Belgrave Square
London
SW1X 8PQ

Telephone: +44 (0)20 7235 0511
Fax: +44 (0)20 7235 4696
E-mail: ***@cla.org.uk


David Fursdon – President


Phone: 020 7235 0511
FAX: 020 7235 4696
Email ***@cla.org.uk


Henry Aubrey-Fletcher – Deputy President


Phone: 020 7235 0511
FAX: 020 7235 4696
Email henry.aubrey-***@cla.org.uk


William Worsley – Vice President


Phone: 020 7235 0511
FAX: 020 7235 4696
Email ***@cla.org.uk
a***@aol.com
2006-08-20 20:03:10 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 18:17:03 +0100, Malcolm
Post by Malcolm
Post by a***@aol.com
Post by Philip H. Hart
Post by a***@aol.com
Post by Philip H. Hart
Post by a***@aol.com
Chinese fur farms Hebei Province
[...]
In how many past posts have you categorically stated that you do not
campaign against farming.
I have never opposed legitimate farming.
A. Keep a chicken in a tiny cage to obtain eggs,
B. Keep a calf in a tiny, unlit hovel to obtain its flesh
C. Keep a mink in a cage to obtain its fur
What difference does it make whether these practices are carried out
inside or outside the UK. Chinese farmers are not breaking the Chinese
laws any more than British farmers are breaking UK law.
There are plenty of AR Groups campaigning against this at present and
laws in the UK have been changed. I concentrate on the killing of
wildlife. If everyone campaigned on everything nothing would get
done.
So what has your campaign achieved, Angus?
How many deer are not being killed because of your campaign?
How many grey squirrels are not being killed because of your campaign?
How many signal crayfish are not being killed because of your campaign?
How many ruddy ducks are not being killed because of your camapign?
How many additional foxes are now being killed because you supported the
campaign to stop fox hunting with dogs?
It's not a question of what a single campaign achieves. It's a
question of, with others, changing public opinion about the killing of
wildlife and exposing those who participate in such deeds.

The ban on hunting with hounds was not achieved by any one
organisation. It was the fruits of thousands of AR activists opposing
hunting at every step of the way. One soldier doesn't win a battle.


Angus Macmillan
www.roots-of-blood.org.uk
www.killhunting.org
www.con-servation.org.uk

All truth passes through three stages:
First, it is ridiculed;
Second, it is violently opposed; and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident.
-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)
Malcolm
2006-08-20 20:53:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by ©¿©
On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 18:17:03 +0100, Malcolm
Post by Malcolm
Post by a***@aol.com
Post by Philip H. Hart
Post by a***@aol.com
Post by Philip H. Hart
Post by a***@aol.com
Chinese fur farms Hebei Province
[...]
In how many past posts have you categorically stated that you do not
campaign against farming.
I have never opposed legitimate farming.
A. Keep a chicken in a tiny cage to obtain eggs,
B. Keep a calf in a tiny, unlit hovel to obtain its flesh
C. Keep a mink in a cage to obtain its fur
What difference does it make whether these practices are carried out
inside or outside the UK. Chinese farmers are not breaking the Chinese
laws any more than British farmers are breaking UK law.
There are plenty of AR Groups campaigning against this at present and
laws in the UK have been changed. I concentrate on the killing of
wildlife. If everyone campaigned on everything nothing would get
done.
So what has your campaign achieved, Angus?
How many deer are not being killed because of your campaign?
How many grey squirrels are not being killed because of your campaign?
How many signal crayfish are not being killed because of your campaign?
How many ruddy ducks are not being killed because of your camapign?
How many additional foxes are now being killed because you supported the
campaign to stop fox hunting with dogs?
It's not a question of what a single campaign achieves. It's a
question of, with others, changing public opinion about the killing of
wildlife and exposing those who participate in such deeds.
The ban on hunting with hounds was not achieved by any one
organisation. It was the fruits of thousands of AR activists opposing
hunting at every step of the way. One soldier doesn't win a battle.
So the answer to my first four questions is "none", then.

What about the fifth question?
--
Malcolm
a***@aol.com
2006-08-20 22:16:02 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 21:53:56 +0100, Malcolm
Post by Malcolm
Post by ©¿©
On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 18:17:03 +0100, Malcolm
Post by Malcolm
Post by a***@aol.com
Post by Philip H. Hart
Post by a***@aol.com
Post by Philip H. Hart
Post by a***@aol.com
Chinese fur farms Hebei Province
[...]
In how many past posts have you categorically stated that you do not
campaign against farming.
I have never opposed legitimate farming.
A. Keep a chicken in a tiny cage to obtain eggs,
B. Keep a calf in a tiny, unlit hovel to obtain its flesh
C. Keep a mink in a cage to obtain its fur
What difference does it make whether these practices are carried out
inside or outside the UK. Chinese farmers are not breaking the Chinese
laws any more than British farmers are breaking UK law.
There are plenty of AR Groups campaigning against this at present and
laws in the UK have been changed. I concentrate on the killing of
wildlife. If everyone campaigned on everything nothing would get
done.
So what has your campaign achieved, Angus?
How many deer are not being killed because of your campaign?
How many grey squirrels are not being killed because of your campaign?
How many signal crayfish are not being killed because of your campaign?
How many ruddy ducks are not being killed because of your camapign?
How many additional foxes are now being killed because you supported the
campaign to stop fox hunting with dogs?
It's not a question of what a single campaign achieves. It's a
question of, with others, changing public opinion about the killing of
wildlife and exposing those who participate in such deeds.
The ban on hunting with hounds was not achieved by any one
organisation. It was the fruits of thousands of AR activists opposing
hunting at every step of the way. One soldier doesn't win a battle.
So the answer to my first four questions is "none", then.
Read what I wrote .
Post by Malcolm
What about the fifth question?
Ask Malcolm Kane, he has inside information.


Angus Macmillan
www.roots-of-blood.org.uk
www.killhunting.org
www.con-servation.org.uk

All truth passes through three stages:
First, it is ridiculed;
Second, it is violently opposed; and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident.
-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)
Malcolm Kane
2006-08-20 22:19:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by ©¿©
On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 18:17:03 +0100, Malcolm
Post by Malcolm
Post by a***@aol.com
Post by Philip H. Hart
Post by a***@aol.com
Post by Philip H. Hart
Post by a***@aol.com
Chinese fur farms Hebei Province
[...]
In how many past posts have you categorically stated that you do not
campaign against farming.
I have never opposed legitimate farming.
A. Keep a chicken in a tiny cage to obtain eggs,
B. Keep a calf in a tiny, unlit hovel to obtain its flesh
C. Keep a mink in a cage to obtain its fur
What difference does it make whether these practices are carried out
inside or outside the UK. Chinese farmers are not breaking the Chinese
laws any more than British farmers are breaking UK law.
There are plenty of AR Groups campaigning against this at present and
laws in the UK have been changed. I concentrate on the killing of
wildlife. If everyone campaigned on everything nothing would get
done.
So what has your campaign achieved, Angus?
How many deer are not being killed because of your campaign?
How many grey squirrels are not being killed because of your campaign?
How many signal crayfish are not being killed because of your campaign?
How many ruddy ducks are not being killed because of your camapign?
How many additional foxes are now being killed because you supported the
campaign to stop fox hunting with dogs?
It's not a question of what a single campaign achieves. It's a
question of, with others, changing public opinion about the killing of
wildlife and exposing those who participate in such deeds.
The ban on hunting with hounds was not achieved by any one
organisation. It was the fruits of thousands of AR activists opposing
hunting at every step of the way. One soldier doesn't win a battle.
I just heard today the Dumfriesshire Hunt has reformed and intends to
begin hunting within the law on September 2nd.
--
Malcolm Kane
a***@aol.com
2006-08-21 07:51:06 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 23:19:42 +0100, Malcolm Kane
Post by Malcolm Kane
Post by ©¿©
On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 18:17:03 +0100, Malcolm
Post by Malcolm
Post by a***@aol.com
Post by Philip H. Hart
Post by a***@aol.com
Post by Philip H. Hart
Post by a***@aol.com
Chinese fur farms Hebei Province
[...]
In how many past posts have you categorically stated that you do not
campaign against farming.
I have never opposed legitimate farming.
A. Keep a chicken in a tiny cage to obtain eggs,
B. Keep a calf in a tiny, unlit hovel to obtain its flesh
C. Keep a mink in a cage to obtain its fur
What difference does it make whether these practices are carried out
inside or outside the UK. Chinese farmers are not breaking the Chinese
laws any more than British farmers are breaking UK law.
There are plenty of AR Groups campaigning against this at present and
laws in the UK have been changed. I concentrate on the killing of
wildlife. If everyone campaigned on everything nothing would get
done.
So what has your campaign achieved, Angus?
How many deer are not being killed because of your campaign?
How many grey squirrels are not being killed because of your campaign?
How many signal crayfish are not being killed because of your campaign?
How many ruddy ducks are not being killed because of your camapign?
How many additional foxes are now being killed because you supported the
campaign to stop fox hunting with dogs?
It's not a question of what a single campaign achieves. It's a
question of, with others, changing public opinion about the killing of
wildlife and exposing those who participate in such deeds.
The ban on hunting with hounds was not achieved by any one
organisation. It was the fruits of thousands of AR activists opposing
hunting at every step of the way. One soldier doesn't win a battle.
I just heard today the Dumfriesshire Hunt has reformed and intends to
begin hunting within the law on September 2nd.
Thanks, Malcolm. I'll pass that on to the appropriate people.


Angus Macmillan
www.roots-of-blood.org.uk
www.killhunting.org
www.con-servation.org.uk

All truth passes through three stages:
First, it is ridiculed;
Second, it is violently opposed; and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident.
-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)
©¿©
2006-08-21 07:58:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@aol.com
On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 23:19:42 +0100, Malcolm Kane
Post by Malcolm Kane
Post by ©¿©
On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 18:17:03 +0100, Malcolm
Post by Malcolm
Post by a***@aol.com
Post by Philip H. Hart
Post by a***@aol.com
Post by Philip H. Hart
Post by a***@aol.com
Chinese fur farms Hebei Province
[...]
In how many past posts have you categorically stated that you do not
campaign against farming.
I have never opposed legitimate farming.
A. Keep a chicken in a tiny cage to obtain eggs,
B. Keep a calf in a tiny, unlit hovel to obtain its flesh
C. Keep a mink in a cage to obtain its fur
What difference does it make whether these practices are carried out
inside or outside the UK. Chinese farmers are not breaking the Chinese
laws any more than British farmers are breaking UK law.
There are plenty of AR Groups campaigning against this at present and
laws in the UK have been changed. I concentrate on the killing of
wildlife. If everyone campaigned on everything nothing would get
done.
So what has your campaign achieved, Angus?
How many deer are not being killed because of your campaign?
How many grey squirrels are not being killed because of your campaign?
How many signal crayfish are not being killed because of your campaign?
How many ruddy ducks are not being killed because of your camapign?
How many additional foxes are now being killed because you supported the
campaign to stop fox hunting with dogs?
It's not a question of what a single campaign achieves. It's a
question of, with others, changing public opinion about the killing of
wildlife and exposing those who participate in such deeds.
The ban on hunting with hounds was not achieved by any one
organisation. It was the fruits of thousands of AR activists opposing
hunting at every step of the way. One soldier doesn't win a battle.
I just heard today the Dumfriesshire Hunt has reformed and intends to
begin hunting within the law on September 2nd.
Thanks, Malcolm. I'll pass that on to the appropriate people.
So much for this then?

" Scotland's first hunt calls it a day
The Dumfriesshire Hunt has announced that it is disbanding after 150
years. This was as a result of landowner, Sir Rupert Buchanan-Jardine,
ordering the hounds off his land, fearing that he could be liable to
prosecution under the Protection of Wild Mammals (Scotland) Act if he
allowed the hunt to continue. The Dumfriesshire hunt was supportedby
Prince Charles and the Princess Royal. It has apparently sold its
hounds to hunts in France, Ireland and England. On hearing about the
end of the Hunt, (SCAHD) said:

"As we said at the time the Protection of Wild Mammals (Scotland) Bill
was going through its various stages in the Scottish Parliament, it
would not be the Act that would put anyone out of a job, but the
hunt's themselves. These hunts could quite easily turn to
drag-hunting. The riders could then still get all the thrills of
riding in the countryside but at the end of the chase, no wild mammal
will be brutally attacked and killed by a pack of dogs."


Obviously not getting enough attention when they tried to take their
ball.. LOL






***********************************************






Jim Webster,Barrow-in-Furness farmer,troll & president of Cumbria CLA.

Would you let your children near this person? see
http://tinyurl.com/kgbnf

Now in the sixth year of raving,defaming,bullying and libeling Pat Gardiner, and
still no result.

Need to complain about employees bringing Country Land and Business Association
into disrepute? Why not contact us at
Country Land and Business Association

16 Belgrave Square
London
SW1X 8PQ

Telephone: +44 (0)20 7235 0511
Fax: +44 (0)20 7235 4696
E-mail: ***@cla.org.uk


David Fursdon – President


Phone: 020 7235 0511
FAX: 020 7235 4696
Email ***@cla.org.uk


Henry Aubrey-Fletcher – Deputy President


Phone: 020 7235 0511
FAX: 020 7235 4696
Email henry.aubrey-***@cla.org.uk


William Worsley – Vice President


Phone: 020 7235 0511
FAX: 020 7235 4696
Email ***@cla.org.uk
Malcolm
2006-08-21 08:09:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@aol.com
On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 23:19:42 +0100, Malcolm Kane
Post by Malcolm Kane
I just heard today the Dumfriesshire Hunt has reformed and intends to
begin hunting within the law on September 2nd.
Thanks, Malcolm. I'll pass that on to the appropriate people.
ROFL!!!
--
Malcolm
©¿©
2006-08-21 08:24:04 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 09:09:56 +0100, Malcolm
Post by Malcolm
Post by a***@aol.com
On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 23:19:42 +0100, Malcolm Kane
Post by Malcolm Kane
I just heard today the Dumfriesshire Hunt has reformed and intends to
begin hunting within the law on September 2nd.
Thanks, Malcolm. I'll pass that on to the appropriate people.
ROFL!!!
It is hilarious to see a hunting group who swore defiance to the ban
have reformed, and chosen to reform in strict compliance with the law.
Now that is ROFL.







***********************************************






Jim Webster,Barrow-in-Furness farmer,troll & president of Cumbria CLA.

Would you let your children near this person? see
http://tinyurl.com/kgbnf

Now in the sixth year of raving,defaming,bullying and libeling Pat Gardiner, and
still no result.

Need to complain about employees bringing Country Land and Business Association
into disrepute? Why not contact us at
Country Land and Business Association

16 Belgrave Square
London
SW1X 8PQ

Telephone: +44 (0)20 7235 0511
Fax: +44 (0)20 7235 4696
E-mail: ***@cla.org.uk


David Fursdon – President


Phone: 020 7235 0511
FAX: 020 7235 4696
Email ***@cla.org.uk


Henry Aubrey-Fletcher – Deputy President


Phone: 020 7235 0511
FAX: 020 7235 4696
Email henry.aubrey-***@cla.org.uk


William Worsley – Vice President


Phone: 020 7235 0511
FAX: 020 7235 4696
Email ***@cla.org.uk
Philip H. Hart
2006-08-21 08:48:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@aol.com
On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 23:19:42 +0100, Malcolm Kane
Post by Malcolm Kane
Post by ©¿©
On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 18:17:03 +0100, Malcolm
Post by Malcolm
Post by a***@aol.com
Post by Philip H. Hart
Post by a***@aol.com
Post by Philip H. Hart
Post by a***@aol.com
Chinese fur farms Hebei Province
[...]
In how many past posts have you categorically stated that you do not
campaign against farming.
I have never opposed legitimate farming.
A. Keep a chicken in a tiny cage to obtain eggs,
B. Keep a calf in a tiny, unlit hovel to obtain its flesh
C. Keep a mink in a cage to obtain its fur
What difference does it make whether these practices are carried out
inside or outside the UK. Chinese farmers are not breaking the Chinese
laws any more than British farmers are breaking UK law.
There are plenty of AR Groups campaigning against this at present and
laws in the UK have been changed. I concentrate on the killing of
wildlife. If everyone campaigned on everything nothing would get
done.
So what has your campaign achieved, Angus?
How many deer are not being killed because of your campaign?
How many grey squirrels are not being killed because of your campaign?
How many signal crayfish are not being killed because of your campaign?
How many ruddy ducks are not being killed because of your camapign?
How many additional foxes are now being killed because you supported the
campaign to stop fox hunting with dogs?
It's not a question of what a single campaign achieves. It's a
question of, with others, changing public opinion about the killing of
wildlife and exposing those who participate in such deeds.
The ban on hunting with hounds was not achieved by any one
organisation. It was the fruits of thousands of AR activists opposing
hunting at every step of the way. One soldier doesn't win a battle.
I just heard today the Dumfriesshire Hunt has reformed and intends to
begin hunting within the law on September 2nd.
Thanks, Malcolm. I'll pass that on to the appropriate people.
Meanwhile, perhaps you can tell us why you are campaigning against
farming practices in China, but not against equally nasty farming
practices in Europe. Pass that on to the appropriate people.
Philip H. Hart
2006-08-30 15:17:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Philip H. Hart
Post by a***@aol.com
On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 23:19:42 +0100, Malcolm Kane
Post by Malcolm Kane
Post by ©¿©
On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 18:17:03 +0100, Malcolm
Post by Malcolm
Post by a***@aol.com
Post by Philip H. Hart
Post by a***@aol.com
Post by Philip H. Hart
Post by a***@aol.com
Chinese fur farms Hebei Province
[...]
In how many past posts have you categorically stated that you do not
campaign against farming.
I have never opposed legitimate farming.
A. Keep a chicken in a tiny cage to obtain eggs,
B. Keep a calf in a tiny, unlit hovel to obtain its flesh
C. Keep a mink in a cage to obtain its fur
What difference does it make whether these practices are carried out
inside or outside the UK. Chinese farmers are not breaking the Chinese
laws any more than British farmers are breaking UK law.
There are plenty of AR Groups campaigning against this at present and
laws in the UK have been changed. I concentrate on the killing of
wildlife. If everyone campaigned on everything nothing would get
done.
So what has your campaign achieved, Angus?
How many deer are not being killed because of your campaign?
How many grey squirrels are not being killed because of your campaign?
How many signal crayfish are not being killed because of your campaign?
How many ruddy ducks are not being killed because of your camapign?
How many additional foxes are now being killed because you supported the
campaign to stop fox hunting with dogs?
It's not a question of what a single campaign achieves. It's a
question of, with others, changing public opinion about the killing of
wildlife and exposing those who participate in such deeds.
The ban on hunting with hounds was not achieved by any one
organisation. It was the fruits of thousands of AR activists opposing
hunting at every step of the way. One soldier doesn't win a battle.
I just heard today the Dumfriesshire Hunt has reformed and intends to
begin hunting within the law on September 2nd.
Thanks, Malcolm. I'll pass that on to the appropriate people.
Meanwhile, perhaps you can tell us why you are campaigning against
farming practices in China, but not against equally nasty farming
practices in Europe. Pass that on to the appropriate people.
Haven't you gone a bit coy suddenly, Anguish? Cat got your tongue? Or
was the question going to show up your imperfect logic if you answered
it?
Philip Hart
2006-09-01 06:02:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Philip H. Hart
Post by Philip H. Hart
Post by a***@aol.com
On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 23:19:42 +0100, Malcolm Kane
Post by Malcolm Kane
Post by ©¿©
On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 18:17:03 +0100, Malcolm
Post by Malcolm
On 20 Aug 2006 02:23:14 -0700, "Philip H. Hart"
Post by Philip H. Hart
On 19 Aug 2006 08:21:38 -0700, "Philip H. Hart"
Post by Philip H. Hart
Post by a***@aol.com
Chinese fur farms Hebei Province
[...]
In how many past posts have you categorically stated that you do not
campaign against farming.
I have never opposed legitimate farming.
A. Keep a chicken in a tiny cage to obtain eggs,
B. Keep a calf in a tiny, unlit hovel to obtain its flesh
C. Keep a mink in a cage to obtain its fur
What difference does it make whether these practices are carried out
inside or outside the UK. Chinese farmers are not breaking the Chinese
laws any more than British farmers are breaking UK law.
There are plenty of AR Groups campaigning against this at present and
laws in the UK have been changed. I concentrate on the killing of
wildlife. If everyone campaigned on everything nothing would get
done.
So what has your campaign achieved, Angus?
How many deer are not being killed because of your campaign?
How many grey squirrels are not being killed because of your campaign?
How many signal crayfish are not being killed because of your campaign?
How many ruddy ducks are not being killed because of your camapign?
How many additional foxes are now being killed because you supported the
campaign to stop fox hunting with dogs?
It's not a question of what a single campaign achieves. It's a
question of, with others, changing public opinion about the killing of
wildlife and exposing those who participate in such deeds.
The ban on hunting with hounds was not achieved by any one
organisation. It was the fruits of thousands of AR activists opposing
hunting at every step of the way. One soldier doesn't win a battle.
I just heard today the Dumfriesshire Hunt has reformed and intends to
begin hunting within the law on September 2nd.
Thanks, Malcolm. I'll pass that on to the appropriate people.
Meanwhile, perhaps you can tell us why you are campaigning against
farming practices in China, but not against equally nasty farming
practices in Europe. Pass that on to the appropriate people.
Haven't you gone a bit coy suddenly, Anguish? Cat got your tongue? Or
was the question going to show up your imperfect logic if you answered
it?
I guess it was the latter.
a***@aol.com
2006-09-01 16:46:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Philip H. Hart
Post by Philip H. Hart
Post by Philip H. Hart
Post by a***@aol.com
On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 23:19:42 +0100, Malcolm Kane
Post by Malcolm Kane
Post by ©¿©
On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 18:17:03 +0100, Malcolm
Post by Malcolm
On 20 Aug 2006 02:23:14 -0700, "Philip H. Hart"
Post by Philip H. Hart
On 19 Aug 2006 08:21:38 -0700, "Philip H. Hart"
Post by Philip H. Hart
Post by a***@aol.com
Chinese fur farms Hebei Province
[...]
In how many past posts have you categorically stated that you
do not
Post by Philip H. Hart
Post by Philip H. Hart
Post by a***@aol.com
Post by Malcolm Kane
Post by ©¿©
Post by Malcolm
Post by Philip H. Hart
Post by Philip H. Hart
campaign against farming.
I have never opposed legitimate farming.
A. Keep a chicken in a tiny cage to obtain eggs,
B. Keep a calf in a tiny, unlit hovel to obtain its flesh
C. Keep a mink in a cage to obtain its fur
What difference does it make whether these practices are carried
out
Post by Philip H. Hart
Post by Philip H. Hart
Post by a***@aol.com
Post by Malcolm Kane
Post by ©¿©
Post by Malcolm
Post by Philip H. Hart
inside or outside the UK. Chinese farmers are not breaking the
Chinese
Post by Philip H. Hart
Post by Philip H. Hart
Post by a***@aol.com
Post by Malcolm Kane
Post by ©¿©
Post by Malcolm
Post by Philip H. Hart
laws any more than British farmers are breaking UK law.
There are plenty of AR Groups campaigning against this at present
and
Post by Philip H. Hart
Post by Philip H. Hart
Post by a***@aol.com
Post by Malcolm Kane
Post by ©¿©
Post by Malcolm
laws in the UK have been changed. I concentrate on the killing of
wildlife. If everyone campaigned on everything nothing would get
done.
So what has your campaign achieved, Angus?
How many deer are not being killed because of your campaign?
How many grey squirrels are not being killed because of your
campaign?
Post by Philip H. Hart
Post by Philip H. Hart
Post by a***@aol.com
Post by Malcolm Kane
Post by ©¿©
Post by Malcolm
How many signal crayfish are not being killed because of your
campaign?
Post by Philip H. Hart
Post by Philip H. Hart
Post by a***@aol.com
Post by Malcolm Kane
Post by ©¿©
Post by Malcolm
How many ruddy ducks are not being killed because of your camapign?
How many additional foxes are now being killed because you
supported the
Post by Philip H. Hart
Post by Philip H. Hart
Post by a***@aol.com
Post by Malcolm Kane
Post by ©¿©
Post by Malcolm
campaign to stop fox hunting with dogs?
It's not a question of what a single campaign achieves. It's a
question of, with others, changing public opinion about the killing
of
Post by Philip H. Hart
Post by Philip H. Hart
Post by a***@aol.com
Post by Malcolm Kane
Post by ©¿©
wildlife and exposing those who participate in such deeds.
The ban on hunting with hounds was not achieved by any one
organisation. It was the fruits of thousands of AR activists
opposing
Post by Philip H. Hart
Post by Philip H. Hart
Post by a***@aol.com
Post by Malcolm Kane
Post by ©¿©
hunting at every step of the way. One soldier doesn't win a battle.
I just heard today the Dumfriesshire Hunt has reformed and intends to
begin hunting within the law on September 2nd.
Thanks, Malcolm. I'll pass that on to the appropriate people.
Meanwhile, perhaps you can tell us why you are campaigning against
farming practices in China, but not against equally nasty farming
practices in Europe. Pass that on to the appropriate people.
Haven't you gone a bit coy suddenly, Anguish? Cat got your tongue? Or
was the question going to show up your imperfect logic if you answered
it?
I guess it was the latter.
Neither.

The video shows the skinning of animals alive. Do you know of any
activities like this in the UK or Western Europe?



Angus Macmillan
www.roots-of-blood.org.uk
www.killhunting.org
www.con-servation.org.uk

All truth passes through three stages:
First, it is ridiculed;
Second, it is violently opposed; and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident.
-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)
Philip Hart
2006-09-02 07:10:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@aol.com
The video shows the skinning of animals alive. Do you know of any
activities like this in the UK or Western Europe?
Fish farming. Halal and kosher slaughter. Religious sacrifices. All of these
involve use of specially bred animals that are subsequently processed, in
part, while comcious.

As always, it's a question of degree. In Europe we are less tolerant of
maltreatment of farm animals than eldewhere.

A stag shot by a trained marksman suffers much less than a New Forest pony
trucked to a slaughterhouse in Belgium before being killed, wouldn't you
say?
a***@aol.com
2006-09-02 07:40:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Philip Hart
Post by a***@aol.com
The video shows the skinning of animals alive. Do you know of any
activities like this in the UK or Western Europe?
Fish farming. Halal and kosher slaughter. Religious sacrifices. All of these
involve use of specially bred animals that are subsequently processed, in
part, while comcious.
They should be stopped.
Post by Philip Hart
As always, it's a question of degree. In Europe we are less tolerant of
maltreatment of farm animals than eldewhere.
A stag shot by a trained marksman suffers much less than a New Forest pony
trucked to a slaughterhouse in Belgium before being killed, wouldn't you
say?
But much more than if it wasn't shot at all.

Angus Macmillan
www.roots-of-blood.org.uk
www.killhunting.org
www.con-servation.org.uk

All truth passes through three stages:
First, it is ridiculed;
Second, it is violently opposed; and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident.
-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)
Philip Hart
2006-09-05 12:14:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@aol.com
Post by Philip Hart
As always, it's a question of degree. In Europe we are less tolerant of
maltreatment of farm animals than elsewhere.
A stag shot by a trained marksman suffers much less than a New Forest pony
trucked to a slaughterhouse in Belgium before being killed, wouldn't you
say?
But much more than if it wasn't shot at all.
Perhaps you would care to rephrase that, as I think I can confidently say it
is not what you meant to imply.

In any case, we seem to agree if meat is to be eaten - and there is little
doubt that this practice will continue - everything should be done to avoid
animals becoming aware of what is happening to them in the course of being
slaughtered.
a***@aol.com
2006-09-05 12:49:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Philip Hart
Post by a***@aol.com
Post by Philip Hart
As always, it's a question of degree. In Europe we are less tolerant of
maltreatment of farm animals than elsewhere.
A stag shot by a trained marksman suffers much less than a New Forest
pony
Post by a***@aol.com
Post by Philip Hart
trucked to a slaughterhouse in Belgium before being killed, wouldn't you
say?
But much more than if it wasn't shot at all.
Perhaps you would care to rephrase that, as I think I can confidently say it
is not what you meant to imply.
A stag would suffer much more by being shot than if it wasn't shot at
all.
Post by Philip Hart
In any case, we seem to agree if meat is to be eaten - and there is little
doubt that this practice will continue - everything should be done to avoid
animals becoming aware of what is happening to them in the course of being
slaughtered.
I think that's fair enough.

However, people don't travel hundreds of miles and pay up to £1000 per
day to buy their meat. They do it for fun and recreation.


Angus Macmillan
www.roots-of-blood.org.uk
www.killhunting.org
www.con-servation.org.uk

All truth passes through three stages:
First, it is ridiculed;
Second, it is violently opposed; and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident.
-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)
Philip H. Hart
2006-09-05 15:03:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@aol.com
Post by Philip Hart
Post by a***@aol.com
Post by Philip Hart
As always, it's a question of degree. In Europe we are less tolerant of
maltreatment of farm animals than elsewhere.
A stag shot by a trained marksman suffers much less than a New Forest
pony
Post by a***@aol.com
Post by Philip Hart
trucked to a slaughterhouse in Belgium before being killed, wouldn't you
say?
But much more than if it wasn't shot at all.
Perhaps you would care to rephrase that, as I think I can confidently say it
is not what you meant to imply.
A stag would suffer much more by being shot than if it wasn't shot at
all.
Post by Philip Hart
In any case, we seem to agree if meat is to be eaten - and there is little
doubt that this practice will continue - everything should be done to avoid
animals becoming aware of what is happening to them in the course of being
slaughtered.
I think that's fair enough.
However, people don't travel hundreds of miles and pay up to £1000 per
day to buy their meat. They do it for fun and recreation.
Either they're wrong in the head, or you and I are. But that is a
subject for psychiatry. It bears little relation to either environment
or conservation, despite what you believe.

Environmental impacts by "chinless wonders" are minimal. Conservation
of habitat is probably aided more than hindered by removing surplus
animals from the range. If the ghillie knows his job, he will make sure
the kill is a clean one. At least, more so than the New Forest pony in
the Belgium abattoir. And the venison will be eaten, somewhere, somehow.
a***@aol.com
2006-09-05 16:08:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Philip H. Hart
Post by a***@aol.com
Post by Philip Hart
Post by a***@aol.com
Post by Philip Hart
As always, it's a question of degree. In Europe we are less tolerant of
maltreatment of farm animals than elsewhere.
A stag shot by a trained marksman suffers much less than a New Forest
pony
Post by a***@aol.com
Post by Philip Hart
trucked to a slaughterhouse in Belgium before being killed, wouldn't you
say?
But much more than if it wasn't shot at all.
Perhaps you would care to rephrase that, as I think I can confidently say it
is not what you meant to imply.
A stag would suffer much more by being shot than if it wasn't shot at
all.
Post by Philip Hart
In any case, we seem to agree if meat is to be eaten - and there is little
doubt that this practice will continue - everything should be done to avoid
animals becoming aware of what is happening to them in the course of being
slaughtered.
I think that's fair enough.
However, people don't travel hundreds of miles and pay up to £1000 per
day to buy their meat. They do it for fun and recreation.
Either they're wrong in the head, or you and I are. But that is a
subject for psychiatry. It bears little relation to either environment
or conservation, despite what you believe.
You've got the wrong end of the stick. I've never said it did.. I
object to the fake conservationists killing deer and other wildlife
for their dishonest agenda.
Post by Philip H. Hart
Environmental impacts by "chinless wonders" are minimal.
Exactly and what I've said for years. Organisations like the Woodland
Trust and the RSPB etc are probably damaging the natural environment
more than the do any good. That's not conservation.
Post by Philip H. Hart
Conservation
of habitat is probably aided more than hindered by removing surplus
animals from the range.
Not if you read the studies of deer populations in America. Killing
deer doesn't reduce the populations.
Post by Philip H. Hart
If the ghillie knows his job, he will make sure
the kill is a clean one.
Not necessarily. No one can be accurate all the time and the Vets
report in the Burns Inquiry showed this.
Post by Philip H. Hart
At least, more so than the New Forest pony in
the Belgium abattoir.
Which makes a better case for banning the export of the ponies than
trying to justify the shooting of deer.
Post by Philip H. Hart
And the venison will be eaten, somewhere, somehow.
Perhaps but excess has been known to be dumped and used as bait.



Angus Macmillan
www.roots-of-blood.org.uk
www.killhunting.org
www.con-servation.org.uk

All truth passes through three stages:
First, it is ridiculed;
Second, it is violently opposed; and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident.
-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Malcolm Kane
2006-09-01 19:43:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@aol.com
The ban on hunting with hounds was not achieved by any one
organisation.
It has done more harm to foxes both individually and collectively than
anything in my life time :-(
--
Malcolm Kane
a***@aol.com
2006-09-01 20:47:47 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 1 Sep 2006 20:43:23 +0100, Malcolm Kane
Post by Malcolm Kane
Post by a***@aol.com
The ban on hunting with hounds was not achieved by any one
organisation.
It has done more harm to foxes both individually and collectively than
anything in my life time :-(
Pro-hunt propaganda.


Angus Macmillan
www.roots-of-blood.org.uk
www.killhunting.org
www.con-servation.org.uk

All truth passes through three stages:
First, it is ridiculed;
Second, it is violently opposed; and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident.
-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)
Malcolm Kane
2006-09-01 22:45:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@aol.com
On Fri, 1 Sep 2006 20:43:23 +0100, Malcolm Kane
Post by Malcolm Kane
Post by a***@aol.com
The ban on hunting with hounds was not achieved by any one
organisation.
It has done more harm to foxes both individually and collectively than
anything in my life time :-(
Pro-hunt propaganda.
Pure statement of fact Angus. I know you will not acknowledge the facts
but I am afraid that is the situation - certainly in Northern England /
Southern Scotland.

I haven't followed a hunt since I was about 10 and was very much against
them until your stance caused me to examine the situation and look in to
it more carefully.

Now I realise that hunting with hounds is preferable to many of the
other ways of controlling foxes.
--
Malcolm Kane
Paul {Hamilton Rooney}
2006-09-02 00:50:18 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 1 Sep 2006 23:45:01 +0100, Malcolm Kane
Post by Malcolm Kane
I haven't followed a hunt since I was about 10 and was very much against
them until your stance caused me to examine the situation and look in to
it more carefully.
Lyiar.
--
Paul Rooney

"Rooney is one of these vandals and has done his utmost to help trash dl and the
other groups which he regularly crossposts to. He's created a false FAQ
and charter" (Chris Lawrence in uk.rec.walking)

"Also long time d.l. reader but never feel robust enough to post much,
especially since Rooney wrecked the group." (Rachel Sullivan in uk.rec.walking)

"Low life scum doesn't even begin to describe you. You are the most loathsome
individual ever to cross the threshold of d.l." (JK in demon.local)

"Your continued posting here with an overlong sig perfectly demonstrates the
sort of person you are and is entirely relevant to every other post you make
in whatever newsgroup. You're a stupid, boorish, childish, little oik, with
no manners, an over-inflated opinion of yourself and nothing that I can see
to commend you to anyone...Now fuck off out of this newsgroup once and for all."
(Malcolm Ogilvie in demon.local)
©¿©
2006-09-02 07:35:44 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 1 Sep 2006 23:45:01 +0100, Malcolm Kane
Post by Malcolm Kane
Post by a***@aol.com
On Fri, 1 Sep 2006 20:43:23 +0100, Malcolm Kane
Post by Malcolm Kane
Post by a***@aol.com
The ban on hunting with hounds was not achieved by any one
organisation.
It has done more harm to foxes both individually and collectively than
anything in my life time :-(
Pro-hunt propaganda.
Pure statement of fact Angus. I know you will not acknowledge the facts
but I am afraid that is the situation - certainly in Northern England /
Southern Scotland.
I haven't followed a hunt since I was about 10 and was very much against
them until your stance caused me to examine the situation and look in to
it more carefully.
Now I realise that hunting with hounds is preferable to many of the
other ways of controlling foxes.
Yet another pro hunt nut in denial. You guys really need some sort of
therapy.

You have consistently been one of the greatest pro hunt supporters in
the group. All hunting, deer, fish, birds and even of the fur
industry.

You're a lying kook
--






*********************************

" There are none so blind as those that do not know they cannot see.
There are none so deaf as those who do not know they cannot hear.
There are none so numb as those who do not know they cannot feel."
Paul {Hamilton Rooney}
2006-09-02 00:49:47 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 1 Sep 2006 20:43:23 +0100, Malcolm Kane
Post by Malcolm Kane
Post by a***@aol.com
The ban on hunting with hounds was not achieved by any one
organisation.
It has done more harm to foxes both individually and collectively than
anything in my life time :-(
You must have led a short life.

How can you do more harm to a fox than ripping it to bits?
--
Paul Rooney

"Rooney is one of these vandals and has done his utmost to help trash dl and the
other groups which he regularly crossposts to. He's created a false FAQ
and charter" (Chris Lawrence in uk.rec.walking)

"Also long time d.l. reader but never feel robust enough to post much,
especially since Rooney wrecked the group." (Rachel Sullivan in uk.rec.walking)

"Low life scum doesn't even begin to describe you. You are the most loathsome
individual ever to cross the threshold of d.l." (JK in demon.local)

"Your continued posting here with an overlong sig perfectly demonstrates the
sort of person you are and is entirely relevant to every other post you make
in whatever newsgroup. You're a stupid, boorish, childish, little oik, with
no manners, an over-inflated opinion of yourself and nothing that I can see
to commend you to anyone...Now fuck off out of this newsgroup once and for all."
(Malcolm Ogilvie in demon.local)
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